Re: GGI, EGCS/PGCC, Kernel source

Stefan Mars (
Tue, 24 Feb 1998 11:31:35 +0100 (MET)

On 24 Feb 1998, Jes Degn Soerensen wrote:

> mharris> GGI isn't just a huge bloated kernel patch.
> mharris> It is a small kernel patch with userland libs. The kernel
> mharris> part of GGI is called KGI and only puts into the kernel stuff
> mharris> that HAS to be in the kernel.
> Then show us what needs to go into the kernel .... OpenGL does not.

*heartattack* Geez, whatever gave you the impression that we are trying to
put OpenGL into the kernel?? trust me, we are not.

We are aiming at making the kernel patch:

1. Small
2. Compiletime config option

Living in kernel space is also our drivers, and just like any other system
they can be compiled in or loaded as a module. The drivers knows about
their hardware, and exports some ioctl calls, some general, some specific
to the hardwarde, in order to let userland change modes, use acceleration

_Everything_ else lives in userspace. Our main library, libggi, is very
small and only handles modesetting and access to the frambuffers. It has
been kept that way not to bloat applications that want to do most parts
themselfes. Other libraries are available and can be loaded as extensions
on demand, and that includes our 3D library that may or may not (though
probably will) be based on OpenGL.

_Please_ go over to and read our webpages
before saying something like this. I have the distinct feeling that most
people here are critizise something they know next to nothing about.

> mharris> GGI is fairly simple IMHO. It will also be very powerful.
> I can add the same lines to fbdev, now where does that leave us?

It leaves us where we have two competing systems, and may the best one
win. I really think that we, the ggi-project, have a better and more
general solution, but of course I am biased here being one of the coders
for GGI.

> mharris> It is hard to judge something that is not complete, however a
> mharris> lot of people certainly judge GGI without having even read
> mharris> their webpages, mandate, etc...
> mharris> Once one has read their stuff, it makes sense. Some
> mharris> questions still arise, but it is NOT a bad thing like many
> mharris> people make it out to be (without reading the web pages).
> Well we had Geert try it out as an alternative to fbdev and it was not
> very promising. This of course does not say that GGI hasn't become a
> lot better (I belive it has) but I still need some good arguments to
> convince me that GGI will actually do what we need at a reasonable
> speed.

Hmm.. I am not going to spam the mailing list with a large gif (or was it
jpeg?), but if you go to our www pages at, and
then look under documentation/"overheads from linux kongress" (the link
isn't called that, you will have to read a little), then you will find a
speed comparision between Xggi and the S3 Xserver. Yes, it isn't the
latest Xserver, though it has mostly been bugfixes on it since then. On
the other hand GGI was only at 0.0.8 or so when that comparision was made,
and since then we have come a long way.

As for Geert I haven't seen or heard anything about him tryin out GGI for
quite some time though, so I would think (admittingly without knowing his
results) that if you want to reference that, then it should be redone.

So, please, come and have a look for yourself. If you feel that we are
doing something good, then please tell us and linux-kernel so. If you feel
something should be done otherwise we will listen to that too. You will
notice that we have reasons for everything we have done, but that doesn't
mean that we couldn't change it should somebody prove us wrong.

But complaining/attacking/worrying about us without even having checked it
out yourself is a very bad thing to do (tm).

> I do agree entirely with Alan when he says that bits from both camps
> will be the right solution in the end.

Ok, what specific bits?

> I will try to find some time and get in sync with your pages though.



| Stefan Mars |Student, Applied physics & Electrical engineering |
| Bjoernkaerrsgatan 15B:30 |Linkoping Institute of Technology |
| S-584 36 Linkoping | |
| Sweden |Email: Phone: +46 (0)13175384 |
| Maintainer of The THX Home Cinema Buyers Guide, located at |
| |
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