Re: The issues for agreeing on a virtualization/namespacesimplementation.

[Eric W. Biederman]

ebiederm@xxxxxxxxxxxx (Eric W. Biederman) writes:

> I think I can boil the discussion down into some of the fundamental
> questions that we are facing.
>
> Currently everyone seems to agree that we need something like
> my namespace concept that isolates multiple resources.
>
> We need these for 
> PIDS
> UIDS
> SYSVIPC
> NETWORK
> UTSNAME
> FILESYSTEM
> etc.
>
> The questions seem to break down into:
> 1) Where do we put the references to the different namespaces?
>    - Do we put the references in a struct container that we reference from
> struct task_struct?
>    - Do we put the references directly in struct task_struct?

Answer in the task_struct.  It is the simplest and most flexible
route and the other implementations are still possible.

> 2) What is the syscall interface to create these namespaces?
>    - Do we add clone flags?  
>      (Plan 9 style)
>    - Do we add a syscall (similar to setsid) per namespace?
>      (Traditional unix style)?
>    - Do we in addition add syscalls to manipulate containers generically?

The answer seems to be we decide on a per namespace basis with
additional syscalls being mandatory if we have any additional data to
pass.

> 3) How do we refer to namespaces and containers when we are not members?

I have seen no arguments against referring to namespaces or containers
by global ids.  So it seems we do not need a container id.

> 4) How do we implement each of these namespaces?
>    Besides being maintainable are there other constraints?

Largely quite.  But I have not heard additional constraints.

> 5) How do we control the resource inside a namespace starting
>    from a process that is outside of that namespace?
>    - The filesystem mount namespace gave an interesting answer.
>      So it is quite possible other namespaces will give
>      equally interesting and surprising answers.

Not yet resolved, but a bit of speculation.

> 6) How do we do all of this efficiently without a noticeable impact on
>    performance?
>    - I have already heard concerns that I might be introducing cache
>      line bounces and thus increasing tasklist_lock hold time.
>      Which on big way systems can be a problem.

A little discussion.  At the level of the last few cache line I
think this needs to be addressed when we merge.  Simply not
messing up existing optimizations sounds like a good initial
target.  Basically at this stage trying hard would be a 
premature optimization.

> 7) How do we allow a process inside a container to create containers
>    for it's children?
>    - In general this is trivial but there are a few ugly issues
>      here.

This look mostly like something to be discussed when we merge
namespaces.  But as long as we keep it in mind it is easy.

Eric
-
To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
the body of a message to majordomo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Please read the FAQ at  http://www.tux.org/lkml/